WEBVTT 00:00:00.982 --> 00:00:04.910 [MUSIC PLAYING] 00:00:16.230 --> 00:00:19.410 I treat my archives, principally 00:00:19.410 --> 00:00:21.720 the still black and white photographs, 00:00:21.720 --> 00:00:23.940 as if they're motion picture. 00:00:23.940 --> 00:00:26.880 And I treat the live cinematography 00:00:26.880 --> 00:00:27.850 as if they're painting. 00:00:27.850 --> 00:00:30.000 That is to say, I wish them to have a kind of composed form, 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:31.920 That is to say, I wish them to have a kind of composed form, 00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:33.900 that I'm rarely moving on them. 00:00:33.900 --> 00:00:36.810 I'm just presenting them. 00:00:36.810 --> 00:00:39.990 Each historical period has different amounts of access 00:00:39.990 --> 00:00:41.280 to archives that you may have. 00:00:41.280 --> 00:00:46.050 There's no footage before 1900. 00:00:46.050 --> 00:00:49.620 There's no photographs before 1839. 00:00:49.620 --> 00:00:52.980 That requires live modern cinematography. 00:00:52.980 --> 00:00:55.622 And so this becomes hugely important 00:00:55.622 --> 00:00:58.080 if you're making a film on Lewis and Clark, which is nearly 00:00:58.080 --> 00:01:00.000 all live modern cinematography, and very little archival. 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:02.430 all live modern cinematography, and very little archival. 00:01:02.430 --> 00:01:06.270 When I had to do a little bit of re-creation, 00:01:06.270 --> 00:01:08.880 we were able to film at various junctures, 00:01:08.880 --> 00:01:12.349 people who made a life or a hobby of recreating parts 00:01:12.349 --> 00:01:13.640 of the Lewis and Clark journey. 00:01:13.640 --> 00:01:15.660 It might be portaging canals over the Great 00:01:15.660 --> 00:01:17.490 Falls in north central Montana. 00:01:17.490 --> 00:01:20.250 It might be in Missouri, with a big keelboat 00:01:20.250 --> 00:01:23.790 that was going up the Missouri and pushed by poles. 00:01:23.790 --> 00:01:27.750 That was impressionistic, silhouetted against a sky, 00:01:27.750 --> 00:01:30.000 or early at dawn in the morning, where there's no features 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:30.960 or early at dawn in the morning, where there's no features 00:01:30.960 --> 00:01:32.070 that you can distinguish. 00:01:32.070 --> 00:01:35.610 And so, you're permitted, I hope, to make a transition back 00:01:35.610 --> 00:01:37.130 to the past. 00:01:37.130 --> 00:01:38.880 But if you're covering the national parks, 00:01:38.880 --> 00:01:42.090 if you're covering the Civil War, it's not impressionistic. 00:01:42.090 --> 00:01:43.410 You're getting the shot. 00:01:43.410 --> 00:01:45.540 Sometimes you're making the decision 00:01:45.540 --> 00:01:49.380 to shoot at the magic hour, just after dawn and just 00:01:49.380 --> 00:01:52.710 before sunset, which is going to be giving you a certain quality 00:01:52.710 --> 00:01:55.560 and warmth of light, which I particularly like. 00:01:55.560 --> 00:01:57.360 Other people, though, would prefer 00:01:57.360 --> 00:02:00.000 the honesty of the high sun and the kind of blue sky, 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:02.250 the honesty of the high sun and the kind of blue sky, 00:02:02.250 --> 00:02:04.020 and sometimes the burned out image. 00:02:04.020 --> 00:02:07.460 So it's whatever is working for you. 00:02:07.460 --> 00:02:09.840 I'm willing to get up before dawn and shoot. 00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:11.880 And I have done it many, many times 00:02:11.880 --> 00:02:15.856 and gotten many great shots myself. 00:02:15.856 --> 00:02:18.694 [MUSIC PLAYING] 00:02:21.070 --> 00:02:23.390 We were working on the Civil War. 00:02:23.390 --> 00:02:26.080 And we went to Andersonville, which is the terrible-- 00:02:26.080 --> 00:02:28.390 the Park Service site at Andersonville, 00:02:28.390 --> 00:02:30.000 which was the worst Southern prison, like it 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:31.720 which was the worst Southern prison, like it 00:02:31.720 --> 00:02:34.410 was the fifth largest city in the Confederacy. 00:02:34.410 --> 00:02:36.490 The Union men came out completely starved 00:02:36.490 --> 00:02:37.480 and emaciated. 00:02:37.480 --> 00:02:39.700 Walt Whitman himself said, can these 00:02:39.700 --> 00:02:42.400 be men, which gave the name to our chapter. 00:02:42.400 --> 00:02:43.199 But we went there. 00:02:43.199 --> 00:02:44.740 And we met with the Park Service guy, 00:02:44.740 --> 00:02:46.870 who was disagreeable in the extreme. 00:02:46.870 --> 00:02:48.400 And he said, look-- 00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:50.800 we've been to all the parks of the Civil War battlefields 00:02:50.800 --> 00:02:51.675 and things like that. 00:02:51.675 --> 00:02:54.781 And we'll becoming a half an hour before sunrise. 00:02:54.781 --> 00:02:55.780 He goes, no, you're not. 00:02:55.780 --> 00:02:57.910 I open up at 7 o'clock. 00:02:57.910 --> 00:02:59.590 I said, well, you know, this is summer. 00:02:59.590 --> 00:03:00.000 This is going to be long gone. 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:00.840 This is going to be long gone. 00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:02.020 He goes, sorry. 00:03:02.020 --> 00:03:03.400 So we went. 00:03:03.400 --> 00:03:04.930 We climbed the wall. 00:03:04.930 --> 00:03:09.040 We got the best, best shots of these gravestones. 00:03:09.040 --> 00:03:11.200 Because so many men died, they're all together. 00:03:11.200 --> 00:03:12.580 And the sun came up. 00:03:12.580 --> 00:03:15.310 And it's just some of the most beautiful footage 00:03:15.310 --> 00:03:16.770 that we've ever gotten. 00:03:16.770 --> 00:03:18.030 Climbed back over the wall. 00:03:18.030 --> 00:03:19.630 At 7 o'clock, the guy pulls up. 00:03:19.630 --> 00:03:20.350 He lets us in. 00:03:20.350 --> 00:03:21.970 We go shoot the modest collection 00:03:21.970 --> 00:03:25.949 of archives they have, and say, thanks so very much, and left. 00:03:25.949 --> 00:03:26.740 It's sort of great. 00:03:26.740 --> 00:03:29.410 And it speaks to some of the stuff you 00:03:29.410 --> 00:03:30.000 have to do to get the shots. 00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:31.924 have to do to get the shots. 00:03:31.924 --> 00:03:37.340 [MUSIC PLAYING] 00:03:37.340 --> 00:03:40.190 We live in a really remarkable age. 00:03:40.190 --> 00:03:44.440 We think because we have the devices 00:03:44.440 --> 00:03:46.090 that we're all filmmakers. 00:03:46.090 --> 00:03:52.090 We can actually all record moving pictures. 00:03:52.090 --> 00:03:54.900 But it requires a lot of other skill. 00:03:54.900 --> 00:03:58.329 But the important lesson, the good news of this versus this-- 00:03:58.329 --> 00:03:58.870 I don't know. 00:03:58.870 --> 00:04:00.000 This cost-- when Buddy bought it, it must cost $35,000. 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:04.020 This cost-- when Buddy bought it, it must cost $35,000. 00:04:04.020 --> 00:04:08.580 And that was, like-- in '79, this is like buying a house. 00:04:08.580 --> 00:04:09.830 This doesn't. 00:04:09.830 --> 00:04:13.320 And it means that if you've got something to say, 00:04:13.320 --> 00:04:15.840 you're going to figure out a way to say it. 00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:17.760 You can do it with a simple lighting kit, 00:04:17.760 --> 00:04:19.649 as we've done most of our lives. 00:04:19.649 --> 00:04:22.089 That kit has gotten a little bit more complex. 00:04:22.089 --> 00:04:24.570 But it's not-- you know, we're not putting up in a truck. 00:04:24.570 --> 00:04:29.790 We're pulling up in a Volvo, or Saab, or a Subaru. 00:04:29.790 --> 00:04:30.000 Most of the cinematography takes place with this camera. 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:35.190 Most of the cinematography takes place with this camera. 00:04:35.190 --> 00:04:40.420 But more often than not, Buddy's Aaton, a tripod, 00:04:40.420 --> 00:04:43.790 his magazine case, and a different grip case. 00:04:43.790 --> 00:04:46.400 And I don't think he ever brought along a lighting kit 00:04:46.400 --> 00:04:48.440 when we were doing any exteriors. 00:04:48.440 --> 00:04:50.930 And if they're shadows, they're shadows. 00:04:50.930 --> 00:04:52.250 If it's filled, it's filled. 00:04:52.250 --> 00:04:55.188 And we've gotten some good stuff over the years. 00:04:55.188 --> 00:04:58.674 [MUSIC PLAYING] 00:05:01.170 --> 00:05:05.070 I have eschewed re-creations and reenactments 00:05:05.070 --> 00:05:07.060 in almost all the films I've done. 00:05:07.060 --> 00:05:10.140 And when I have done it, it has been very minor 00:05:10.140 --> 00:05:13.500 and usually shot in silhouette, in a very 00:05:13.500 --> 00:05:16.770 distant and impressionistic way, and represents 00:05:16.770 --> 00:05:19.830 a tiny, tiny fraction of the entire film. 00:05:19.830 --> 00:05:23.480 And only because it helps set up personal points of view. 00:05:23.480 --> 00:05:25.400 The one thing I did not want to do 00:05:25.400 --> 00:05:27.900 is recreate anything in the Civil War series. 00:05:27.900 --> 00:05:30.000 In fact, the only re-recreation in the entire 11 and 1/2 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:31.650 In fact, the only re-recreation in the entire 11 and 1/2 00:05:31.650 --> 00:05:35.550 hours, nine episodes, is horse hoof, pounding 00:05:35.550 --> 00:05:37.750 through a puddle of water. 00:05:37.750 --> 00:05:38.890 That's it. 00:05:38.890 --> 00:05:42.880 Everything else is of the period. 00:05:42.880 --> 00:05:46.740 However, there are some uses of live cinematography 00:05:46.740 --> 00:05:50.910 that we do to integrate, for a variety of reasons, 00:05:50.910 --> 00:05:53.490 into archival scenes. 00:05:53.490 --> 00:05:58.530 And I can think of lots of places 00:05:58.530 --> 00:06:00.000 in which we've used them sort of separate and apart, 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:01.470 in which we've used them sort of separate and apart, 00:06:01.470 --> 00:06:04.200 the live cinematography of the now quiet battlefields, 00:06:04.200 --> 00:06:05.720 or the national parks, or whatever 00:06:05.720 --> 00:06:08.270 or we've integrated them in the battles, 00:06:08.270 --> 00:06:11.310 and in the national parks, and in other films. 00:06:11.310 --> 00:06:15.130 The example I want to use right now is an important one, 00:06:15.130 --> 00:06:16.020 I think. 00:06:16.020 --> 00:06:22.110 It is in September of 1862, outside a little Maryland town 00:06:22.110 --> 00:06:24.390 called Sharpsburg, where there is 00:06:24.390 --> 00:06:26.850 a creek called Antietam Creek. 00:06:26.850 --> 00:06:29.430 It's a battle that's like a symphony in three parts, three 00:06:29.430 --> 00:06:30.000 movements if you will. 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:31.240 movements if you will. 00:06:31.240 --> 00:06:32.820 And so what I thought I'd do is start 00:06:32.820 --> 00:06:35.910 from the beginning of the scene, to locate us 00:06:35.910 --> 00:06:39.210 where the troops are, where the Northerns are blue, 00:06:39.210 --> 00:06:41.130 where the Southerners are red. 00:06:41.130 --> 00:06:45.690 And to go into the first part of this battle, 00:06:45.690 --> 00:06:47.550 in the northern part of the battle, 00:06:47.550 --> 00:06:50.220 and show the way in which I believe 00:06:50.220 --> 00:06:54.450 some live cinematography is, out of character for our battle 00:06:54.450 --> 00:06:57.630 scenes, integrated into the scene, 00:06:57.630 --> 00:06:58.850 into the actual fighting. 00:07:02.760 --> 00:07:06.390 So as we begin the Battle of Antietam, what I've done 00:07:06.390 --> 00:07:07.890 is I have a map. 00:07:07.890 --> 00:07:11.130 I then have a picture of the Dunker Church. 00:07:11.130 --> 00:07:13.470 Here we have this extraordinary irony, 00:07:13.470 --> 00:07:15.420 that one of the Northern objectives 00:07:15.420 --> 00:07:17.350 is to get to a plateau where there 00:07:17.350 --> 00:07:22.140 is a whitewashed simple church by a German pacifist Baptist 00:07:22.140 --> 00:07:26.400 sect, that thinks even a steeple is too ostentatious. 00:07:26.400 --> 00:07:29.730 And that into this extraordinarily peaceful 00:07:29.730 --> 00:07:30.000 new world, in which so many people from Europe 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:32.670 new world, in which so many people from Europe 00:07:32.670 --> 00:07:35.880 have come to find the blank slate, the tabula rasa, 00:07:35.880 --> 00:07:40.650 to make their lives, they happen to end up, unlucky them, here. 00:07:40.650 --> 00:07:45.150 And then I tilt up Joe Hooker, the Union commander 00:07:45.150 --> 00:07:46.680 of that part of the field. 00:07:46.680 --> 00:07:49.260 And then it cuts to some canon. 00:07:49.260 --> 00:07:50.966 Because what I've done with the map, 00:07:50.966 --> 00:07:52.590 and with the Dunker Church, and this is 00:07:52.590 --> 00:07:55.980 I've held off the fact of what's going to happen. 00:07:55.980 --> 00:07:59.110 That map is telling you something's going to happen. 00:07:59.110 --> 00:08:00.000 And if you know anything about American history, 00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:01.110 And if you know anything about American history, 00:08:01.110 --> 00:08:04.590 you know some really heavy shit is about to happen. 00:08:04.590 --> 00:08:08.340 But you need to actually also hold it in abeyance. 00:08:08.340 --> 00:08:11.660 And you see the rosy-colored canon that are sitting there. 00:08:11.660 --> 00:08:12.990 They're completely inanimate. 00:08:12.990 --> 00:08:15.120 They've been there for 150 years. 00:08:15.120 --> 00:08:17.920 And all of a sudden, we fire them. 00:08:17.920 --> 00:08:18.640 They don't fire. 00:08:18.640 --> 00:08:19.140 [CANON FIRE] 00:08:19.140 --> 00:08:23.430 And what they fire is into this sort of abstraction 00:08:23.430 --> 00:08:25.170 of a cornfield, from on top. 00:08:25.170 --> 00:08:28.890 And so I want you to then be like the person reading 00:08:28.890 --> 00:08:30.000 the map, that I suddenly have the bird's eye view, no longer 00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:32.700 the map, that I suddenly have the bird's eye view, no longer 00:08:32.700 --> 00:08:36.630 of the abstract graphic map, but of the cornfield in which this 00:08:36.630 --> 00:08:37.140 happened. 00:08:37.140 --> 00:08:40.110 And if you noticed in the beginning of that first shot, 00:08:40.110 --> 00:08:42.179 it's very neat rows. 00:08:42.179 --> 00:08:46.920 But the rows resolve as the commentary continues 00:08:46.920 --> 00:08:50.160 about the pitched battle, into something more chaotic, 00:08:50.160 --> 00:08:51.990 into something that's been destroyed. 00:08:51.990 --> 00:08:54.960 It was the luck of this particular shot 00:08:54.960 --> 00:08:59.140 that somehow the perspective of the rows begins to change. 00:08:59.140 --> 00:09:00.000 And then finally, in one of the rare hand-held movements 00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:02.850 And then finally, in one of the rare hand-held movements 00:09:02.850 --> 00:09:04.610 outside the Battle of Gettysburg, 00:09:04.610 --> 00:09:07.260 you're plunging as a Union soldier, 00:09:07.260 --> 00:09:10.680 heading towards this very last moment in which the Dunker 00:09:10.680 --> 00:09:13.840 Church appears. 00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:16.300 And you see it there for just a second. 00:09:16.300 --> 00:09:19.080 And then you're out. 00:09:19.080 --> 00:09:21.120 Now, we're moving on with the story. 00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:23.620 And we get other aspects of it. 00:09:23.620 --> 00:09:28.020 So for me, one gave you kind of a aerial-- 00:09:28.020 --> 00:09:30.000 there's something kind of passive and introductory 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:31.170 there's something kind of passive and introductory 00:09:31.170 --> 00:09:33.660 about the canons until they fire. 00:09:33.660 --> 00:09:37.170 Then you're given a kind of perspective like the map. 00:09:37.170 --> 00:09:39.150 And then all of a sudden, you are a soldier. 00:09:39.150 --> 00:09:42.690 And all of those things permit shifting perspectives 00:09:42.690 --> 00:09:46.110 that actually help focus an audience's attention 00:09:46.110 --> 00:09:46.920 into that moment. 00:09:46.920 --> 00:09:49.470 It's not just a series of pictures and paintings 00:09:49.470 --> 00:09:51.570 which we're holding at arm's length, in which they 00:09:51.570 --> 00:09:53.250 retain their plasticity. 00:09:53.250 --> 00:09:55.770 That is to say, they retain their two-dimensionality. 00:09:55.770 --> 00:09:56.880 That's the enemy. 00:09:56.880 --> 00:09:59.640 We want you to forget the two-dimensionality 00:09:59.640 --> 00:10:00.000 of that photograph. 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:00.690 of that photograph. 00:10:00.690 --> 00:10:03.090 We want you to believe that it has dimension. 00:10:03.090 --> 00:10:05.920 And in some ways, interestingly enough, 00:10:05.920 --> 00:10:08.850 the live cinematography in this case 00:10:08.850 --> 00:10:12.330 is used to integrate you into the moment and the place. 00:10:12.330 --> 00:10:15.690 All of these are decisions that serve only one thing, 00:10:15.690 --> 00:10:17.428 and that's the story. 00:10:17.428 --> 00:10:23.170 [MUSIC PLAYING] 00:10:23.170 --> 00:10:26.740 Within the content of how you conduct an interview, 00:10:26.740 --> 00:10:27.970 that I'm still a student. 00:10:27.970 --> 00:10:29.770 And I feel that way. 00:10:29.770 --> 00:10:30.000 But technically, I think it's pretty obvious 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:32.380 But technically, I think it's pretty obvious 00:10:32.380 --> 00:10:33.460 that we've improved. 00:10:33.460 --> 00:10:35.320 And a really good example would be 00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:38.440 to show you the evolution of filming David McCullough. 00:10:38.440 --> 00:10:39.970 This first interview is at his home 00:10:39.970 --> 00:10:43.420 in Martha's Vineyard in 1980, when 00:10:43.420 --> 00:10:45.340 we're working our "Brooklyn Bridge" film. 00:10:45.340 --> 00:10:47.590 We have got one massive key, that's 00:10:47.590 --> 00:10:49.780 just washing the whole thing. 00:10:49.780 --> 00:10:54.122 And I don't even think we have even a backlight, or a fill 00:10:54.122 --> 00:10:55.330 light, or anything like that. 00:10:55.330 --> 00:10:57.490 It's just there. 00:10:57.490 --> 00:11:00.000 And it's kind of everything that I didn't want my films to be. 00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:02.350 And it's kind of everything that I didn't want my films to be. 00:11:02.350 --> 00:11:04.840 And even later in this "Brooklyn Bridge" film, 00:11:04.840 --> 00:11:06.670 we've already gotten a little bit better. 00:11:06.670 --> 00:11:08.570 But it had to do with the circumstances. 00:11:08.570 --> 00:11:10.930 Second, he's in a rocking chair. 00:11:10.930 --> 00:11:12.700 I really urge you, if there's going 00:11:12.700 --> 00:11:16.240 to be one rule in documentary filming and in interviewing, 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:19.090 do not have your subject in a rocking chair because that 00:11:19.090 --> 00:11:24.640 provides some focus, some sound, and other issues that 00:11:24.640 --> 00:11:25.660 just don't make it work. 00:11:25.660 --> 00:11:27.370 But for some reason, he's there. 00:11:27.370 --> 00:11:29.260 We're also a little bit above him. 00:11:29.260 --> 00:11:30.000 We hadn't yet learned about eyeline. 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:31.220 We hadn't yet learned about eyeline. 00:11:31.220 --> 00:11:32.920 We're making this stuff up. 00:11:32.920 --> 00:11:35.540 I'm in my 20s. 00:11:35.540 --> 00:11:39.071 I mean this is elemental filmmaking. 00:11:39.071 --> 00:11:40.570 And so we're a little bit above him. 00:11:40.570 --> 00:11:43.225 And I don't like the sense of looking down on him. 00:11:43.225 --> 00:11:45.100 And you want to-- if there's no communication 00:11:45.100 --> 00:11:48.631 except among equals, we should be at his eyeline. 00:11:48.631 --> 00:11:51.130 The next time we're doing this is for the Statue of Liberty. 00:11:51.130 --> 00:11:52.870 It's just a few years later. 00:11:52.870 --> 00:11:54.800 But already we're beginning to-- 00:11:54.800 --> 00:11:56.740 I-- I'm not sure if perfect is the right word. 00:11:56.740 --> 00:11:58.570 But we're beginning to refine. 00:11:58.570 --> 00:12:00.000 One, we don't need to have as much context anymore. 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:01.150 One, we don't need to have as much context anymore. 00:12:01.150 --> 00:12:04.030 We're actually hoping that we're less interested in asking 00:12:04.030 --> 00:12:05.650 the question, like where was this 00:12:05.650 --> 00:12:08.290 taken, why is he in a rocking chair, what's 00:12:08.290 --> 00:12:10.360 that radiator about, why is there 00:12:10.360 --> 00:12:12.050 no other furniture in that room? 00:12:12.050 --> 00:12:14.680 It just-- it begged too many other questions. 00:12:14.680 --> 00:12:16.420 But now, we've got him. 00:12:16.420 --> 00:12:17.350 It's the man. 00:12:17.350 --> 00:12:20.650 We have an essential key light, way off to the side. 00:12:20.650 --> 00:12:23.530 We're creating consciously lots of shadows. 00:12:23.530 --> 00:12:26.110 We have just a little bit of a backlight, 00:12:26.110 --> 00:12:28.690 that's picking up his silver hair, on the other side. 00:12:28.690 --> 00:12:30.000 And we are now beginning to think 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:30.880 And we are now beginning to think 00:12:30.880 --> 00:12:33.010 about what kind of background we have 00:12:33.010 --> 00:12:35.770 and what part of that background we want to accentuate. 00:12:35.770 --> 00:12:38.650 And in this case, we're permitting the lines 00:12:38.650 --> 00:12:40.750 on a piece of furniture to be a defining 00:12:40.750 --> 00:12:42.430 part of the left-hand part of the frame. 00:12:42.430 --> 00:12:44.470 The dark side of the frame-- because, remember, 00:12:44.470 --> 00:12:46.360 the key light is on the other side. 00:12:46.360 --> 00:12:48.100 And there's a vast expanse. 00:12:48.100 --> 00:12:50.680 We permit that to be a rather empty area. 00:12:50.680 --> 00:12:55.260 So suddenly, we're making really different kinds of decisions. 00:12:55.260 --> 00:12:58.030 It's not just oh, boy, we've got David McCullough. 00:12:58.030 --> 00:13:00.000 We interviewed him again for our film on the Congress 00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:02.120 We interviewed him again for our film on the Congress 00:13:02.120 --> 00:13:04.030 a couple of years after that. 00:13:04.030 --> 00:13:06.220 And we've got an interview, in which 00:13:06.220 --> 00:13:11.300 we have been concerned that people have said, 00:13:11.300 --> 00:13:12.880 oh, your things are too dark. 00:13:12.880 --> 00:13:16.390 They're too-- too mysteriously lit. 00:13:16.390 --> 00:13:19.120 And so now I think we're a little bit hyperconscious here 00:13:19.120 --> 00:13:20.620 in a way that I wouldn't be. 00:13:20.620 --> 00:13:23.440 Obviously, the key light's gone to the other side of David. 00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:25.330 We've done something with some window. 00:13:25.330 --> 00:13:27.580 We've probably jelled the window to keep 00:13:27.580 --> 00:13:29.440 it at least slightly warm. 00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:30.000 But now, we've got more of his face. 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:31.747 But now, we've got more of his face. 00:13:31.747 --> 00:13:32.830 There's less of a mystery. 00:13:32.830 --> 00:13:34.420 But it's not a bad shot. 00:13:34.420 --> 00:13:35.840 It's working very well. 00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:40.420 But I think it reflected a sense on my and my cinematographer, 00:13:40.420 --> 00:13:43.180 longtime cinematographer, Buddy Squires' part, 00:13:43.180 --> 00:13:46.900 that maybe that other stuff in that previous example, 00:13:46.900 --> 00:13:48.700 wasn't the most egregious. 00:13:48.700 --> 00:13:52.690 That we were way too much in this sort of half-moon depth 00:13:52.690 --> 00:13:56.890 of darkness, sort of, you know, Marlon Brando is Kurtz 00:13:56.890 --> 00:14:00.000 in "Apocalypse Now," where we might as well just shine 00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:00.290 in "Apocalypse Now," where we might as well just shine 00:14:00.290 --> 00:14:01.070 a light-- 00:14:01.070 --> 00:14:03.730 a flashlight under his leg, and do it. 00:14:03.730 --> 00:14:05.410 So that's David, the third time. 00:14:05.410 --> 00:14:10.160 Now, you-- Wayne's World, where a lot of time-- 00:14:10.160 --> 00:14:12.340 a lot of time is passing because David 00:14:12.340 --> 00:14:13.960 narrated some films after that. 00:14:13.960 --> 00:14:16.030 And then we were able to catch up with him. 00:14:16.030 --> 00:14:18.815 And so you see the previous three interviews are all 00:14:18.815 --> 00:14:20.890 with 16 millimeter film. 00:14:20.890 --> 00:14:22.580 Now, it's digital. 00:14:22.580 --> 00:14:24.205 We're controlling the frame a lot more. 00:14:24.205 --> 00:14:25.760 It's a lot more complicated. 00:14:25.760 --> 00:14:27.460 We're not in a 4:3 situation. 00:14:27.460 --> 00:14:29.590 We're in a 16:9 situation. 00:14:29.590 --> 00:14:30.000 We've got more of the background to fill. 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:31.510 We've got more of the background to fill. 00:14:31.510 --> 00:14:32.980 You've got a bookcase here. 00:14:32.980 --> 00:14:36.470 We don't have to have the definitions as harsh 00:14:36.470 --> 00:14:36.970 as they are. 00:14:36.970 --> 00:14:39.310 We've got still a central key light. 00:14:39.310 --> 00:14:41.800 But instead of being at a half-moon position, 00:14:41.800 --> 00:14:44.470 it's moved around to get the whole face. 00:14:44.470 --> 00:14:47.320 And we're permitting that dark side 00:14:47.320 --> 00:14:49.330 to have some detail in the background, 00:14:49.330 --> 00:14:51.950 but to really fall off in the darkness. 00:14:51.950 --> 00:14:53.869 It's hugely important for us to light them 00:14:53.869 --> 00:14:55.660 in a position in which they're comfortable. 00:14:55.660 --> 00:14:58.810 And that each one of these represents an evolution 00:14:58.810 --> 00:15:00.000 in our sense of what it might be to create a situation where 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:03.100 in our sense of what it might be to create a situation where 00:15:03.100 --> 00:15:04.750 they feel at ease. 00:15:04.750 --> 00:15:08.410 And while they-- most of them don't necessarily ever even 00:15:08.410 --> 00:15:11.890 look or think about looking at the shot that they're in, we 00:15:11.890 --> 00:15:12.850 also know-- 00:15:12.850 --> 00:15:15.340 and we're filled with flags, and baffles, and lights, 00:15:15.340 --> 00:15:16.960 and all sorts of things-- 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:20.980 that they feel that this is a one-on-one, that all 00:15:20.980 --> 00:15:22.540 of that stuff can disappear. 00:15:22.540 --> 00:15:24.858 That's the main thing. 00:15:24.858 --> 00:15:29.620 [MUSIC PLAYING] 00:15:29.620 --> 00:15:30.000 When we do interviews, which are sort 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:31.840 When we do interviews, which are sort 00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:34.300 of arguably one of the most important things we do, 00:15:34.300 --> 00:15:38.590 the lifeblood of the production, we'll 00:15:38.590 --> 00:15:41.850 bring a cameraman, maybe an assistant cameraman, 00:15:41.850 --> 00:15:43.840 and a sound man. 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:45.704 We basically try to travel really light. 00:15:45.704 --> 00:15:46.870 And we know we travel light. 00:15:46.870 --> 00:15:49.420 And I have dear, dear friends who use two and three 00:15:49.420 --> 00:15:51.730 times as many people as we do. 00:15:51.730 --> 00:15:52.870 You need a camera kit. 00:15:52.870 --> 00:15:53.920 You need a sound kit. 00:15:53.920 --> 00:15:55.000 You need a lighting kit. 00:15:55.000 --> 00:15:56.000 And that's all you need. 00:15:56.000 --> 00:16:00.000 And then us, the suits, come in and help light 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:00.460 And then us, the suits, come in and help light 00:16:00.460 --> 00:16:03.700 and do all those things, or sit on a crate 00:16:03.700 --> 00:16:05.470 and ask the questions. 00:16:05.470 --> 00:16:07.060 And that's it. 00:16:07.060 --> 00:16:08.960 I've done an interview by myself. 00:16:08.960 --> 00:16:13.540 I've just gone in, put the headphones on, and turned 00:16:13.540 --> 00:16:14.680 the camera on and asked-- 00:16:14.680 --> 00:16:17.080 closed the viewfinder and asked the questions. 00:16:17.080 --> 00:16:18.970 And you know, it was OK. 00:16:18.970 --> 00:16:20.780 But I don't like to do that. 00:16:20.780 --> 00:16:24.840 I need help, which really begs the question right now, 00:16:24.840 --> 00:16:27.000 like what the hell is all of this? 00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:30.000 Like, I can make my films for 40 years with a four- 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:30.940 Like, I can make my films for 40 years with a four- 00:16:30.940 --> 00:16:34.100 or five-person crew at the very most. 00:16:34.100 --> 00:16:35.980 Him, I get. 00:16:35.980 --> 00:16:37.270 Him, I get. 00:16:37.270 --> 00:16:38.800 That's a sound person. 00:16:38.800 --> 00:16:40.210 I need a sound person. 00:16:40.210 --> 00:16:42.346 He's connected to this, the boom. 00:16:42.346 --> 00:16:44.290 [THUDS] 00:16:44.290 --> 00:16:45.640 She, I get. 00:16:45.640 --> 00:16:46.840 She's the camera person. 00:16:46.840 --> 00:16:47.620 I get it. 00:16:47.620 --> 00:16:50.110 And it's always so interesting to me 00:16:50.110 --> 00:16:52.150 that I have never been interviewed 00:16:52.150 --> 00:16:55.570 with as small a crew as we take to do 00:16:55.570 --> 00:16:58.330 the films for which people are interviewing us. 00:16:58.330 --> 00:17:00.000 And there's just something kind of funny about that. 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:01.930 And there's just something kind of funny about that. 00:17:01.930 --> 00:17:04.673 Like-- like this is the fourth camera, I think. 00:17:04.673 --> 00:17:06.589 I don't even know where this camera came from. 00:17:06.589 --> 00:17:08.044 That's amazing.